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Post by mattoid on May 31, 2007 16:32:14 GMT -5
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Post by sj on May 31, 2007 19:40:17 GMT -5
Why the Hell for?
Why not name it for someone that has given their life fighting for our country or for someone sacrificing their life so someone else lived?
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Post by buffbabe1 on May 31, 2007 20:20:47 GMT -5
Why the Hell for? Why not name it for someone that has given their life fighting for our country or for someone sacrificing their life so someone else lived? I'm inclined to agree with you. I understand that this was a horrible thing that happened to this young man, but there are others that we can honor with this opportunity. |
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Post by sherunsfree on May 31, 2007 22:28:01 GMT -5
Why the Hell for? Why not name it for someone that has given their life fighting for our country or for someone sacrificing their life so someone else lived? Wouldn't someone who was killed for being who he was enough? His death is an example and hopefully has shown some people the ugly side of intolerance. I think a skate park would be better named for someone who maybe appreciated skating than a solider. |
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Post by sj on May 31, 2007 23:23:55 GMT -5
Posted by sherunsfree: "Wouldn't someone who was killed for being who he was enough? His death is an example and hopefully has shown some people the ugly side of intolerance. I think a skate park would be better named for someone who maybe appreciated skating than a solider."
Sherunsfree, I disagree with your statement. I'm sure Brian Deneke was a fine young man and it is regretful he is not with us anymore. I am sorry for that. The loss of life is not to be taken lightly.
However, Mr.Deneke was killed in a street fight. It was something in which he was involved. He chose to be there. I am not justifying in any way the occurrence, but Brian Deneke is no hero.
Mr. Deneke should remain in a special place in the minds all those that knew him and loved him. However, in my opinion, he did not reach the plateau needed to have a skate park or anything else named after him. We have many more deserving people.
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Post by zebrarick on Jun 1, 2007 7:08:22 GMT -5
I tend to agree with SJ and respectfully disagree with others on this initiative. I know folks who were Brians friends as well. SJ is correct. He choose to be in that position rather than go home. He death is tragic and the outcome of the trial even more so.
I belive the naming parks, statues, roads, etc should be reserved for thoose who have added to the community over and above the norm.
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Post by joe on Jun 1, 2007 14:54:25 GMT -5
I too think it should be anmed after someone else. But, if they name it after Deneke, then they do.
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Post by timetogorightnow on Jun 1, 2007 17:04:09 GMT -5
Street fight? Chose to be there? Did you read different news stories about his murder than I did? Brian had left IHOP where the disagreement started and gone over to the Western Plaza parking lot and was run down by a speeding vehicle while he was on foot. He CHOSE that?
Skaters tend to lead an alternative lifestyle or at least dress as if they do. That's what Brian was all about, being different. That's why he was murdered. It seems highly appropriate to me to name the skate park after him.
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Post by catsmeow on Jun 2, 2007 17:19:11 GMT -5
Yes, this is sounding a little like blame the victim ...
If naming the park after Deneke would have people forever asking, "Who was that?" And then the story could be told in such a way as to bring awareness to diversity and the bad things that can happen when groups of people hate each other over stupid reasons, then, I'm all for it.
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Post by petiepanzer on Jun 3, 2007 9:20:07 GMT -5
Street fight? Chose to be there? Did you read different news stories about his murder than I did? Brian had left IHOP where the disagreement started and gone over to the Western Plaza parking lot and was run down by a speeding vehicle while he was on foot. He CHOSE that? Skaters tend to lead an alternative lifestyle or at least dress as if they do. That's what Brian was all about, being different. That's why he was murdered. It seems highly appropriate to me to name the skate park after him. That is a bunch of BS. I happen to know what really happened that night, do you? Here are some things to take into consideration: 1. Brian knew there was going to be a fight up there that night, as did every kid that went up to the IHOP. This should have been evident by the fact that Chris Oles began handing out weapons to the punks before they ever went up to the IHOP, things like brass knuckles, police batons, and chains. 2. Brian didn't cross over to the parking lot at Western Plaza trying to walk home, he went over there to fight with his buddies. His parents lived on Mesa, which is SSW of IHOP. WP is east of WP. 3. The punks were not victims of unchecked jock aggression. The whole fight started when Chris Oles began blowing kisses at the jocks the week before in the IHOP. One of them then proceeded to call him a "f@gg@t". Chris then proceeded to walk over, say hi honeys, lift up his shirt, and reveal a large knife stuck in his pants waist. For some reason, this has been portrayed as a conflict between 2 groups of high school kids. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most of the punks were already out of school, and were from 19 to their early 20's. Brian Deneke was 19 at the time, his brother was in his early 20's, and Chris Oles was around 22. And they were getting picked on by kids that were all 16 to 17 years old and still in high school? I don't know how anybody could possible believe that one. 4. Brian Deneke was extremely drunk at the time of his death, as determined by toxicology reports. This is important to note because drunk people don't usually walk away from fights. 5. Yes, Dustin Camp did run Brian Deneke down. However, this was only after he noticed his friend Rob Mansfield lying down on the pavement being beaten by 3 or 4 of the punks with weapons. He just lost it. When somebody is assaulting your friend with deadly weapons that could potentially kill him, I don't know if I could stand by and watch that take place either. Now, the whole thing stinks. As far as I am concerned, every kid that showed up for the fight that night should have been charged with a crime, not just Dustin Camp. Unfortunately, nobody else was charged with anything. Chris Oles was the catalyst in the whole thing and should have been charged as an accessory to manslaughter. Everybody that showed up that night was at fault, not just Dustin or the jocks. Jeff Blackburn, Stanley Marsh 3, the AGN and the punks can try to spin it however they want. They can fool most of the people with their lies, but there are a lot of people that know the truth. Brian Deneke didn't get killed because he was a punk. He got killed because he was stupid and used some really poor judgment, as did every other kid that showed up for the fight that night. |
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Post by catsmeow on Jun 3, 2007 9:59:17 GMT -5
Just curious to know whether all this information came out in the trial? If not, I don't understand why not.
It doesn't take away what Dustin Camp did, but it could help explain why he received probation, originally, for the offense.
It's a shame, really, that it appears people haven't really learned much of anything from this ordeal. Instead of teaching, it sounds like it's caused a further division. And nobody wins.
One other thought, too, is that just because someone uses poor judgment does not mean death is the "serves you right" answer. We've all made stupid mistakes and poor judgments. Most of us escaped our teenage years without anything so serious happening. Fortunately.
Frankly, I feel bad for all of them.
Now, I'm not sure what I think ... maybe it's best to leave well enough alone? I don't know ...
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Post by traveler on Jun 3, 2007 10:45:07 GMT -5
Just curious to know whether all this information came out in the trial? If not, I don't understand why not. (Disclaimer: I'm not from Amarillo, didn't live here at the time of the incident, and only saw the story on A&E? the summer before moving here... After seeing the show, my wife was horrified that we were moving here...) All of this information did indeed come out in the trial, for the most part. Now, I'm not sure what I think ... maybe it's best to leave well enough alone? I don't know ... In my opinion, the defendant deserved to go to jail, but that doesn't mean the victim is a hero. And I think that naming a park after someone... Well, that's something we do for heroes, or at least someone who has done something significantly praiseworthy. I feel very bad for Deneke and his friends and family, but I'm not sure that the most appropriate thing to do is to name a city park after him. |
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Post by petiepanzer on Jun 3, 2007 10:48:58 GMT -5
catsmeow,
It did all come out in the trial. That is why there was not a more severe sentence for Dustin. Without giving up tmi, let me just say that I have a family member that was pretty much in the know concerning what happened at Western Plaza. People are only getting one side of the story.
I really do feel bad for what happened to Brian that night and never said that it 'served him right'. He did, however, exercise extremely poor judgment that night by showing up at the IHOP, as did everybody else that showed up for that fight. They should have all been charged with a crime because all of their behavior contributed to Brian's death. To say that Brian was targeted because he was a punk, though, is just not accurate. Brian was the victim in a group fight that went too far. That kind of crap has been going on with teens in Amarillo for years and it is time for it to come to an end. When I was in h.s., there were fights every weekend at Houston, Austin, Southwest, or Medi park. I saw a lot of kids get beat up really bad over the years and this was just an extenuation of the whole problem. The parents and police didn't take these fights seriously, though, and eventually somebody got killed over something so stupid.
The fact remains that it cost 1 kid his life and completely ruined another kid's life. Contrary to popular opinion, Dustin really wasn't a bad kid. He used some really poor judgment and is going to pay the price for it the rest of his life. He was a kid that should have been attending college and working in the professional world. Now, he's just another ex-con who will have to work crappy jobs the rest of his life. He has paid the price for his mistake and people need to let him live his life.
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Post by princessbaybay on Jun 3, 2007 11:34:38 GMT -5
Maybe not name it with Brians name... or anyone elses name... why not a name that stands for tolerance... but unique enough to make people inquire into the meaning of the name...and then the story can be told.
What happened was a horrible tragedy... and I agree with cats there is a lot of blaming the victim. The intolerance peeks through.
I have a kid that dresses different. He is not "emo" "goth" or "punk"... but he has his own style and I have seen the way people look at him...have heard remarks from the "jocks" and "rednecks" in the family... and the intolerance is obviously alive and thriving.
I have heard people talk about throwing rocks and other things at these kids...and just generally treating them bad. Why? Because they dress different.
But if you look at Amarillos history...it is built on old money old names... mock "high society" traditions... and a great deal rides on appearance... and what is thought of as proper... LMAO! It is like watching a bunch of adults play "dress up". I was gone for 15 years and THAT is one thing that has never changed.
So I don't see the tolerance thing changing soon...
People like to say they are tolerant... but you can see their true feelings lying just underneath the surface.
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Post by petiepanzer on Jun 3, 2007 12:24:02 GMT -5
Baybay, I couldn't agree with you more. I think it is terrible the way that some kids get treated for being different. That was not the case in this situation, though. People are trying to portray the punks as these poor, defenseless kids that were the victims of intolerance, when they were the ones that instigated the fight in the first place. Brian was beating the crap out of another kid with a chain when he got hit by a car. That is a matter of court record. The AGN, in its usual manner of shoddy journalism, only told part of the story. Even then, they did manage to reveal a sliver or 2 of the truth. As far as the big money, one of the punks involved was the grandson of a doctor here and others were the children of a dentist. Dustin Camp's father was a mechanic. Others have tried to paint this as a battle between the haves and have nots, but that is not really the case. www.amarillo.com/stories/082699/new_fast.shtmlwww.amarillo.com/stories/082799/new_car.shtmlwww.amarillo.com/stories/082699/new_fight.shtml |
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