About Downtown

[horribilis]

I moved from another state to take a pretty comfortable paying job here. The funny thing is, while my career was catapulted forward greatly, I see people saying exactly the same things everyone said where I came from. No matter what the town there seems to be the same old saw - this town would be overrun with Toyota plants and millions of people if it weren't for "them" ... the sinister old money families that control the world - the Rothchilds, the Rockefellers deciding who gets to come to town and who doesn't. I'm curious - why would they want to keep business away, when you would think just the opposite, bringing more business here would increase their riches and their power base. Seems they would be doing just the opposite.

[jeeper]

westtexan said:

The downtown property owners...can either donate their land free of charge...for a baseball stadium...

or shut up...and let the new stadium be built out west...where most of the people and the money are.

What? Every city that has had a sports team for any length of time knows you build the stadiums in the center of the population, preferably in the CBD (Central Business District). You make downtown the focal point of all city events. That allows the attractions to feed off of each other. A ballpark would bring the foot traffic. The foot traffic would bring restaurants and shops. The restaurants and shops make our city look more attractive for conventions, and more conventions would mean more tourists, which means maybe we could revitalize buildings like the Rule and Fisk into hotels.

You put it on the west side, and you get what, an attraction half the town won't use regularly because of the location, and maybe another Wal Mart built next door to it? A ballpark built on the fringes of town won't create nearly the economic chain reaction as a ballpark downtown.

[traveler]

Re: Petie's dissertation

Word.

[princessbaybay]

Petie... this uneducated practically single mother could take you to school!!!!!
I found what you said about uneducated people as offensive as you found someone elses comments about gay people. But I won't even go there with you.... ask WT...you won't win! LMAO! wt had to use duct tape to hold his head on after it was ripped off....after the dust cleared I was nice enough to stitch it back on frontwards for him.

SOME of what you say is correct.... but if an area is producing uneducated people and keeping the pay scale WAY below what it should be.... housing costs are as much or more than other areas....food costs are more... fuel cost is UNREAL in the panhandle.... to me that says the powers that be think opression is the key to maintaining their power.

So to answer horribilis..... these folks of power are big fish in a small pond... and they want to keep it that way... because if the pond were to grow... they would be eaten by the new stock.

[westtexan]

jeeper said:

You put it on the west side, and you get what, an attraction half the town won't use regularly because of the location, and maybe another Wal Mart built next door to it? A ballpark built on the fringes of town won't create nearly the economic chain reaction as a ballpark downtown.

The people downtown now...and on the east and north sides...won't use the ballpark...because they most likely don't have the spare money anyway.

The majority of the downtown and northside people won't use the stadium anyway...because most of them are just barely getting by financially...and for the lowest income people...it would be a choice between baseball tickets or cigarettes and beer.

[jeeper]

westtexan said:

jeeper said:

You put it on the west side, and you get what, an attraction half the town won't use regularly because of the location, and maybe another Wal Mart built next door to it? A ballpark built on the fringes of town won't create nearly the economic chain reaction as a ballpark downtown.

The people downtown now...and on the east and north sides...won't use the ballpark...because they most likely don't have the spare money anyway.

The majority of the downtown and northside people won't use the stadium anyway...because most of them are just barely getting by financially...and for the lowest income people...it would be a choice between baseball tickets or cigarettes and beer.

Wow West-Texan, that was a blatetly arrogant statement. You sound like the typical resident of Southwest Amarillo. You think the SW side has all the money and all the good people in town, while the rest of the city is occupied by poor ethnic trash who just get in Amarillo's way. Have you been in the north, northeast, or nortwest areas of town in the last five years? There are plenty of new houses and neighborhoods that could compete in value with anything in SW Amarillo. Perhaps SW Amarillo should secede from the rest of town and build a fence around itself so you don't have to deal with "those people" anymore.

The comment about the cigarettes and beer is just ignorant.

[westtexan]

Come on jeeper...I've seen the slummy areas just west and north of downtown...and all around the Boulevard...and the Barrio area...and I'm sorry...but most of those people have no interest in baseball...and don't go to the Dillas games now...and yes...they'd rather spend their spare cash on cigarettes and beer.

And sorry...but there are no new homes being built in the areas I described or Hamlet for that matter.

jeeper...you sound like the typical liberal who has never been out of SW...to see how bad it really is around downtown.

[jeeper]

Actually I live downtown. I'm not sure I've ever been accused of being a liberal before, but there's a first time for everything I guess. I admit there are lots of lower income folks on the north and northeast sides of town, but they're not the only ones there.

Look, I'm new to the forum and don't want to make waves, so I'll just chat about downtown and save the rest of this for a later time. Cheers.

[westtexan]

That's fine if you live downtown...because what I know is gathered from driving around and looking...and years spent...working at a couple of offices...close to downtown.

[traveler]

princessbaybay said:

Petie... this uneducated practically single mother could take you to school!!!!!
I found what you said about uneducated people as offensive as you found someone elses comments about gay people.

Y'all are too thin-skinned. Petie, Princess, the both of you...

The artsy fartsy gay comments were relatively benign, and I think most of the artsy fartsy gays in Amarillo would agree with me. It's a given that for economic development, a community needs a critical mass of artsy fartsy gays. Given, "artsy fartsy" is an irreverent term, but I think we can all agree that irreverence is allowed, and ought to be encouraged.

And Petie's observations re: the socioeducational ecology in Amarillo, what exactly did you find untrue, Princess? What was so goshdarn offensive?

This is a brilliant discussion thread. Here I thought the Talk Amarillo forum was dead. Thank goodness the AGN posted the link to this board.

Now back to the important question:

What can we do to bring more artsy fartsy gays to Amarillo?

[petiepanzer]

princessbaybay said:

Petie... this uneducated practically single mother could take you to school!!!!!
I found what you said about uneducated people as offensive as you found someone elses comments about gay people. But I won't even go there with you.... ask WT...you won't win! LMAO! wt had to use duct tape to hold his head on after it was ripped off....after the dust cleared I was nice enough to stitch it back on frontwards for him.

SOME of what you say is correct.... but if an area is producing uneducated people and keeping the pay scale WAY below what it should be.... housing costs are as much or more than other areas....food costs are more... fuel cost is UNREAL in the panhandle.... to me that says the powers that be think opression is the key to maintaining their power.

So to answer horribilis..... these folks of power are big fish in a small pond... and they want to keep it that way... because if the pond were to grow... they would be eaten by the new stock.

Baybay,
Personal pissing contests bore me and I find them to accomplish very little. What I said in regards to uneducated was not meant to demean anybody, but was merely done to point out the relationship between education and income. The relationship extends further than between those that possess a degree and those that do not. In fact, I tend to use a much broader definition for education than most people. I include more than just an institutional degree to define one's education and would say that it is made up of all the information that collectively makes up knowledge base. I would be the first person to agree that a degree is nothing but a piece of paper in a nice leather folder and I find them to be highly overrated for many entrepreneurial applications, and I hold 2 degrees from well respected universities. Employers, however, view the situation differently and statistics from the U.S. census bureau seem to reinforce my thesis:


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States


Now, in regards to a dependent's effect on income, I can only speak from personal experience. Now, please keep in mind, I do come from the world of venture capital, where a great deal of one's income revolves around landing prime clientele, commissions, bonuses, and such. It is difficult to travel, schmooze the rich and powerful, and put in the long hours necessary for financial reward when a small child and a spouse are waiting at home, or in the case of single parents, the little one gets sick and requires a parent to stay at home. I had a female colleague that was making a ton of money. In fact, she was averaging around $30K a month. I'm telling you, this girl had some spikes. Anyhow, she ended up getting pregnant and decided to keep the child to raise on her own. Well, she wasn't able to ever get anywhere near her income level after she had the baby, even though she had a nanny at home. Why? because she started to feel guilty about leaving overnight and not being there when the kid was sick. This became such a distraction that she eventually had to take a salaried position for considerably less financial compensation. That is just the way it goes. In fact, I have seen my own financial situation decrease considerably since I moved back here. Originally, I moved back to Amarillo 2 years ago after my father died. My mother needed help because we have a brother with Down's Syndrome and a 92 year old grandmather who is suffering from dementia and severe ostioporosis. In fact, she breaks a hip every time she falls down. Now, my mother, who is in her 60's, just was not able to take care of both of them on her own and was facing the daunting choice of having to place both of them into a home. I don't think it is right to stick one's family members into a nursing home once they become too old to fend for themselves or do not possess the mental faculties to survive on their own. Of the other 4 siblings, I was the only one who was willing to make the sacrifice and move back to Amarillo to aid my mother in caring for our family members. The others were too busy with a legal practice, a family of their own, and finishing up Medical School. Unfortunately, my income has dropped considerably as a result of moving back to Amarillo and removing myself from the stream of financial information that is pertinent to my chosen profession. I will be lucky to make 1/4 of what I was making prior to my pre-2005 levels this year. Now, I don't regret my decision to return home, but I do miss the juicy commission checks that were once coming into my bank account every month. I still am able to make a comfortable living for myself, but it is difficult to hunt whales if one is stuck in the desert. Some day, I will most likely start a family of my own. I will most likely choose to pursue the method of family creation that has been used by successful men all over the globe: I plan on being a wealthy 40-something with a 20-something trophy wife. ;D

I know gas is expensive compared to other cities in Texas, but fuel here is still below the national average. sure, it will always cost more than Houston, but that is the nation's oil refinery, after all. I haven't really paid attention to food herevs. other places, but I know it costs much less to dine out here than in many other cities. I would say that housing is considerably less expensive here than in most other cities in the country. In fact, one of the bright spots of moving back to Amarillo was the relatively low-cost of housing. In fact, I was able to purchase a home here with the proceeds from the sale of my last home that was larger that my previous home, and still have about $100,000 in my pocket. According to the U.S. census bureau, the average home in Amarillo is less expensive than the average price of a home in Texas, which is less than the national average. Granted, this data was in 2000, before the big national R.E. boom, but Texas and Amarillo lagged behind most other places in the country during this boom. Now, they do rape the homeowner on property taxes here, and I admittedly do not know how the rental market in Amarillo compares to that of other cities. I would think that rental prices would be directly related to sales prices, income, and demand, though.

quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/48/4803000.html

[tigerlily]

I have to agree with Travler. I personally think petie has allot of valid points. Maybe some where stated rather harshly and could be taken offensively. But, for the most part I think they are true. I do not take offense to anything said because I know who and what I am so what others say does not really bother me. I would be put in the dink category I guess. As far as the ball park I agree with WT. Why and where would it be placed downtown? Who here in Amarillo would really want it anyway? I am sure there are some but for the majority I just can't see it . But of course this is my opinion. I think this is a really good thread and the opinions of everyone are great. Keep them coming.

[petiepanzer]

traveler said:

princessbaybay said:

Petie... this uneducated practically single mother could take you to school!!!!!
I found what you said about uneducated people as offensive as you found someone elses comments about gay people.

Y'all are too thin-skinned. Petie, Princess, the both of you...

The artsy fartsy gay comments were relatively benign, and I think most of the artsy fartsy gays in Amarillo would agree with me. It's a given that for economic development, a community needs a critical mass of artsy fartsy gays. Given, "artsy fartsy" is an irreverent term, but I think we can all agree that irreverence is allowed, and ought to be encouraged.

And Petie's observations re: the socioeducational ecology in Amarillo, what exactly did you find untrue, Princess? What was so goshdarn offensive?

This is a brilliant discussion thread. Here I thought the Talk Amarillo forum was dead. Thank goodness the AGN posted the link to this board.

Now back to the important question:

What can we do to bring more artsy fartsy gays to Amarillo?

;D

[petiepanzer]

Now, in regards to a baseball stadium, I think it would be better to put one down town, if they were to do it at all. Now, my question is this: why would we pump a bunch of money into a new stadium when the city of Amarillo has already been burned several times by baseball teams in the past? Am I the only one who remembers what the previous incarnation of the Dillas did to the city and the people of Amarillo a few years ago when they split town after getting a $1 a year lease on the stadium. They basically defecated on everybody that lived here in the city. Going back a little further, does anybody else remember the old Gold Sox? They basically gave Amarillo the middle finger as well and left for greener pastures. Now, say we pass an expensive taxpayer funded bond for the construction of a new stadium? What is going to prevent the cycle of excrement from once again falling upon the faces of people in Amarillo? How does that old saying go? Oh yes, I believe it is, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. They should add a new revision that says "fool me thrice, sterilize me."

[jeeper]

Valid points Petie, but I'm more of the opinion that we should keep trying to add venues and attractions to Amarillo and hope they take hold rather than maintain this city's status quo which quite frankly makes it one of the most boring cities in Texas (unless you're married with kids of course).