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Post by marked on Dec 17, 2007 10:07:59 GMT -5
Does it seem like they put a lot of money into planning this thing and are ready to pull the trigger just when the credit markets are in crisis and the economy is teetering on recession?
I've heard about the 'Great Downtown Renovation' ever since we moved back in the mid '90s.
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Post by west-texan on Dec 17, 2007 12:15:22 GMT -5
They haven't put a lot of thinking into some things in the downtown renovation...
Like the Barfield Building fiasco...where the building has no parking...except maybe 6 spots at the curbs on Polk and on 6th.
The AEDC website lists an attached parking garage for the Barfield Bldg.
That is pure bullsh!t...because you can walk completely around the Barfield Bldg...and it's obvious there is no attached parking garage.
Read my lips folks...
Not enough parking at the Barfield Building for apartment tenants and guests.
The parking lot just south and next to the Barfield...is owned by Zen721.
The small parking lot on the corner just across the street...is owned by another business.
The only parking for the Barfield...appears to be the handful of spots at the street curb.
I'm betting lack of parking is why the Barfield is for sale...and no investors want to touch that project.
There is a parking garage just down the street from the Barfield...but that is for the Fisk Building.
The attached parking garage listed in the AEDC ad for the Barfield...does not exist in reality.
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Post by petiepanzer on Dec 18, 2007 9:51:19 GMT -5
There's nothing to anchor a real downtown renovation. The other cities where this has been successful have done so by having something like a college or a stadium to anchor things. To make downtown work, people are going to have to move down there. Families with kids aren't going to do that. It then falls to childless couples and single people. Most single people leave Amarillo as soon as they finish school or they get married and start families. There are a few late-20's, early-30's single people in town, but they are more the exception than the rule.
It has improved somewhat, though. When I was in high school, it was almost completely abandoned down there and a group of friends and I were able to rent the area where Bodega's is now located for about $200 a month. From there, we had keg parties for about a month and charged underaged kids $5 a cup until the APD took us down and nailed us with about 200 MIP's.
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Post by zebrarick on Dec 18, 2007 12:09:35 GMT -5
So Petie, you are into providing alcohol to minors? WTF?
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Post by marked on Dec 18, 2007 12:18:18 GMT -5
I'd love to see an area where you could go and walk around after a game or a concert, but downtown Amarillo just isn't very well laid out for that sort of thing.
My main point was their timing is a little suspect. We've had about 15 years of growth, not sure it's the best time to sink a lot of money into this.
Petie, we rented that same spot once and had Cooder Graw play a party for a buddy who got married. We were all of age though.
I saw the "don't mess with meth, Seth" episode last week.
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Post by petiepanzer on Dec 18, 2007 13:48:05 GMT -5
So Petie, you are into providing alcohol to minors? WTF? I was into it when I was in high school back in the early 90's. I wouldn't do it today, but people do all kinds of crazy things to get laid as a teenager. I was never one to let the possibility of getting into trouble stop me from having a good time. |
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Post by petiepanzer on Dec 18, 2007 13:51:06 GMT -5
I'd love to see an area where you could go and walk around after a game or a concert, but downtown Amarillo just isn't very well laid out for that sort of thing. My main point was their timing is a little suspect. We've had about 15 years of growth, not sure it's the best time to sink a lot of money into this. Petie, we rented that same spot once and had Cooder Graw play a party for a buddy who got married. We were all of age though. I saw the "don't mess with meth, Seth" episode last week. You're right, Marked. Amarillo is not well-laid out for that type of thing. I saw that episode last week, also. |
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Post by petiepanzer on Dec 19, 2007 3:11:31 GMT -5
I'd love to see an area where you could go and walk around after a game or a concert, but downtown Amarillo just isn't very well laid out for that sort of thing. My main point was their timing is a little suspect. We've had about 15 years of growth, not sure it's the best time to sink a lot of money into this. Petie, we rented that same spot once and had Cooder Graw play a party for a buddy who got married. We were all of age though. I saw the "don't mess with meth, Seth" episode last week. If they don't have the financing wrapped up for downtown already, they are going to be facing an uphill battle. There is a real sense of fear right now among the commercial lenders, especially concerning commercal RE development, as they are very worried that the mess from the residential market is going to spill over and burn them. A lot of the private investors I have worked with in the past are stretched pretty thin right now and those that are not are either taking a wait and see approach or they are moving a lot of ther funds overseas. For the first tme ever, I am going to Russia to try to take on investors for a project we are trying to get done. In the past, I always went on behalf of western investors. |
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Post by horribilis on Dec 19, 2007 21:03:43 GMT -5
I think a downtown walking mall between Fillmore and Pierce and 6th and 9th streets would be a draw. Downtown Portland, OR has a plaza right in the middle of downtown that draws a lot of people.
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Post by catsmeow on Dec 19, 2007 21:08:31 GMT -5
Check out the Amarillo Independent at www.amarilloindy.com by either late tonight or early tomorrow. There are some stories on this topic. |
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Post by west-texan on Dec 19, 2007 22:26:30 GMT -5
I think a downtown walking mall between Fillmore and Pierce and 6th and 9th streets would be a draw. Downtown Portland, OR has a plaza right in the middle of downtown that draws a lot of people. Downtown Philadephia has 2 nice huge open areas...one with Independence Hall...and the Liberty Bell museum. The nicest place though...is the other park...which is something like Franklin Plaza or Square...and it has a huge fountain...and is really the place to hangout and enjoy a nice afternoon in downtown Philly. This young woman's big dog...pulled the leash out her hand...and jumped in the fountain...and was walking around in there for a couple of minutes...and she was all embarrassed...because the dog got out...and shook water on some people...but everyone thought it was funny. |
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Post by mustakister on Dec 20, 2007 9:31:37 GMT -5
My take on this whole effort to make downtown a viable shopping / residential / entertainment hub is that it is going to take a LOOOOONG time. Basically, the only thing this planning committee can do is talk about it enough to get positive press and hopefully spur some private / speculative development. I think we are trending in the right direction already, though. We've seen the addition of a few nicer restaurants / bars which starts the process of getting people to at least consider heading that way on a regular basis. I agree that a hotel is a crucial element. The whole idea of a ballpark is not realistic, at least in the short / medium term.
A theater would be great, but it would have to something along the lines of an Alamo Drafthouse. (http://www.drafthouse.com/) This Austin based theater is lights-out the best theater I've ever been to. The original owners handed over the concept to some folks in charge of licensing / franchising, but they stayed on to maintain creative control. This is an indoors / all-year type of entertainment venue w/ great food / drinks and awesome creative content surrounding the movies. The place is a sell out in multiple locations on a regular basis... I stop in every time I go back to visit.
It seems to me that the organizations such as the downtown planning committee / AEDC / Chamber, etc. should get together and figure out a way to offer better incentives to small businesses. The going will be tough in the beginning for these owners, but once you get enough of them down there it could turn into something special and profitable for everyone. Has there been any talk of any type of subsidized loans w/ favorable repayment plans / lower rates, etc?
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Post by petiepanzer on Dec 20, 2007 16:30:12 GMT -5
Some good points from all involved.
1. Downtown Portland has better mass transit options that are not available in Amarillo yet. It would be nice if we could get something like the street cars/light rail system here, but I'm not sure if that would be effective. Amarillo is pretty spread out and probably will never have the population to make one effective. Without something like that, our old friend lack-of-parking resurfaces. Without adequate parking, success down town is going to remain limited. I suppose there is always the option of knocking over some of the more decrepit buildings and paving them to make a fee-based parking lot, but I have to wonder how something like that would be met in Amarillo. I know some people that have never lived anywhere else would most likely get their panties in a wad over the possibility of having to pay $2-5 dollars for parking.
2. I would have to say that the downtown stadium option would not only be unrealistic at this juncture, it would most likely be met with a great deal of resistance. For one thing, Amarillo doesn't even have an affiliated baseball team. It makes absolutely no sense to build an expensive new stadium if we can't even get an affiliated team in here, preferably at least a AA team. Second, those new stadiums are usually funded by an increase to the tax base of property owners in the local taxing jurisdiction. Property taxes are already high enough here and I think a majority of property owners would really balk at the prospect of financing the raising of some new stadium based upon a municipal bond backed by an increase to the property tax rate within the PRAD. I was in school in Boulder when Denver got the Rockies and they raised people's property taxes considerably to build Coors Field, and it pissed a lot of people off.
3. For subsidized loans to become an option, it requires a level of principal capital to come from the public coffers. That usually means some type of tax, and there are a variety of methods used to raise this money. There is the option of placing an additional tax on property, a sales tax, a hotel and rental car tax, etc. Of course, the Texas Panhandle is typically a low tax culture, so it might be a quite an accomplishment to convince the voters to enact such an increase, especially when the tax is going to be largely viewed as something that benefits only a select few. Can we say 'entitlement'? If it was sold the right way, people might go for it, but I have my doubts. Remember, the same arguments were used once upon a time for the AEDC, and that has been quite a bust for the last 10 years. Starting any new business is risky, and most of them are going to fail within the first 3 years. Also, who is to decide who becomes eligible for such a loan and who is not eligible? Would it be some type of board like the AEDC? I would want to see some more development of a concrete plan before I would feel comfortable supporting it.
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Post by west-texan on Dec 22, 2007 15:41:14 GMT -5
My big question is...where downtown...would we put a new baseball stadium? The "downtown renovation" plan has never been completely thought through. Those people can't begin to tell you where they want to put a stadium...any more than they can tell you where the parking will be for the Barfield Bldg. The downtown renovation plan is not any smarter than that plan someone had for wanting to put a big horse racing track near Amarillo...when Remington Park just barely scrapes by in OKC...and the track failed in Houston. The only race tracks that turn a real profit...are where they can race year-round...like in southern California. Again...someone please tell us where they are going to put a baseball stadium downtown?  |
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Post by catsmeow on Dec 22, 2007 18:38:51 GMT -5
I don't see the stadium, either. I think it will never happen anyway ... so, we might as well forget they even proposed it.
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