|
|
Post by princessbaybay on May 8, 2007 15:27:35 GMT -5
But how do you fix properly? Leave the Iraqi Woman, Children, Elderly, Men who want change to go through it as we pull out and quit helping? Right or wrong no longer matters in why thsi was statrted. What matters is getting something done right over there which has not happeend. I don't have an answer but I do have a question/s.... What is right? They have been having these wars over there forever.... so now we jump in and we are at war forever? When would be the right time to leave? |
|
|
|
Post by westtexan on May 8, 2007 15:33:57 GMT -5
But how do you fix properly? Leave the Iraqi Woman, Children, Elderly, Men who want change to go through it as we pull out and quit helping? Right or wrong no longer matters in why thsi was statrted. What matters is getting something done right over there which has not happeend. I don't have an answer but I do have a question/s.... What is right? They have been having these wars over there forever.... so now we jump in and we are at war forever? When would be the right time to leave? There is probably a reason...that Malaysia...may be the only Islamic democracy in the world. The rest of the Muslims may not be mature enough to handle a true democracy. Hard to base a peaceful country around an azz-backwards religion...that still widely engages in barbaric practices and terrorism. |
|
|
|
Post by unk on May 8, 2007 16:07:53 GMT -5
Read the Downing street memos. We didn't all act on the same information. They acted on the information Bush shoved down their throats. Condi was too much of a 'yes' man.
[/quote]
<> Marked,.....you are a work of art.
|
|
|
|
Post by horribilis on May 8, 2007 19:46:37 GMT -5
I see democracy gradually spreading throughout the region. Look at what is going on in Dubai today. Look at Turkey, a member of Nato and a US ally. By mid century India will be a world economic power. Iran has the making of a democracy in an educated middle class. Iraq also does.
Of course the whiny, yellow bellied sapsuckers want instant gratification can't see beyond their noses.
Our greatest weapon is freedom and democracy. Why not export that force to combat fascist Islam? It has a great track record of success everywhere else its been tried. Thank God George Bush and Australian Prime Minister John Howard are the only two world leaders taking the terrorism threat seriously.
|
|
|
|
Post by princessbaybay on May 9, 2007 8:26:07 GMT -5
Why not export that force to combat fascist Islam? It has a great track record of success everywhere else its been tried. Ok.... so we can bend you over and poke you with a stick because we don't like your belief system??? Your question and your sentence makes your thought pattern no better than a terrorists. |
|
|
|
Post by marked on May 9, 2007 8:52:38 GMT -5
Why not export that force to combat fascist Islam? It has a great track record of success everywhere else its been tried. Ok.... so we can bend you over and poke you with a stick because we don't like your belief system??? Your question and your sentence makes your thought pattern no better than a terrorists. I don't know if it's the progressive attitude or the catsuit, but 'how you doin?' |
|
|
|
Post by princessbaybay on May 9, 2007 9:21:04 GMT -5
LOL...hi marked!! I just don't usually get into these discussions....
I belong to neither party.... but what is right is right and what is wrong is wrong.
People are willing to die defending their religion.... obviously... so this guys attitude is go to their den and wipe them out... why?? Because the whole world should be forced into being Christians??
LMAO! We are power hungry freaking jerks and WE will be our own downfall... the ball is already rolling on that. Why is it up to us to police the world? Who died and made us God? When it comes to the nut cuttin' everyone else is going to bail on us and we are standing there going "oh crap...what do we do now?" We go under is what happens....and we become a third world country.......and it will happen if things continue as they are... IMO the powers that be are pizzing away our great country.
Sorry but I don't like the thought of my neighbors coming in and kicking my doors down and locking me up or killing me because they like football and I don't.... and I would blast their @ss for doing so!
The immediate terrorist threat was not from Iraq..... yes that situation needed to be dealt with... but not before wiping out the immediate threat to us.... that is still out there just waiting for the right time to hit us on our home ground AGAIN... only now they have got an up close and personal look at how we operate...and have learned from it and adjusted accordingly... and the next attack...and it will happen...on our home ground is going to make 9-11 look like childs play.
While we are over there in Iraq with our resources tapped and only getting worse....we have left ourselves wide open! Geez we don't have enough resources over here to help ourselves out of a natural disaster...
Just remind me never to go into business with any of the fools responsible for this mess... they would sink the business in less than a year!
|
|
|
|
Post by marked on May 9, 2007 10:16:51 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by petiepanzer on May 9, 2007 12:12:21 GMT -5
Wow!!! I leave for a few days, and this tread goes off in a crazy tangent. I have a number of things I would like to address. I will try to address some of them separately.
First, Horribillis, this is what the first amendment says, verbatim:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
How you determined it was designed as some sort of anti-tax protection built into the constitution is beyond me. Now, the first 10 amendments to the constitution( the bill of rights) were not ratified until 1791. Just to create a proper timeline here, the Revolutionary war had been first declared in 1776 with the Declaration of Independance, all fighting in said war had ended by 1781, and the peace treaty granting the colonies independance was signed in 1873. For all intents and purposes, the revolution had been over for quite some time. There was actually a much more sensible and beautiful reason for adding freedom of religion to the bill of rights. Many of the original colonists, around 50% of them, originally came to the New World because they had been heavily persecuted in their home countries of Europe for their religious beliefs. From the Quakers to the Pilgrims to the Calvinists to the Huguenots, they all came to this new land so that they may worship and live in peace without having to deal with harrassment from the established state religion. Now, these same people remembered what had originally driven their groups across the pond: it was religious persecution inflicted by some of the official state-protected religions, namely the Anglican and the Catholic church. Fearing what could happen if any specific religion were ever somehow given preference in the new government, the framers of the constitution added the Establishment Clause to the first amendment of the constitution. Today, that protects anyone wishing to worship however they believe, and it is a good thing. It also protects people's right not to worship, if they so choose. I can honestly see nothing wrong with the amendment because it provides equl protection to ALL of its citizens. E.G., there are some churches who tend to speak in tongues and roll around on the floor as though the worshippers are either possessed or under the influence of narcotics. Now, as strange as this may seem to me or any other outsider, their right to worship is protected under the law and can not be prohibited, abridged or stopped by authorities.
Second, on the subject of Iraq. Well, it is pretty obvious that things have not been going well for quite some time over there and are showing little sign of improving. I will wait to see how the surge plays out before condemning the action completely, but it doesn't look like things are headed in a positive direction. Things all seemed so much clearer in 2003, when it appeared Saddam was a threat to this country. I am ashamed to admit I actually voted for Bush.....twice. Well, he and his cronies have really managed to screw this whole thing up. First, there were no WMD's. That was all based on faulty intelligence and some wishful thinking. I think of all the people that have died as a result of this ill-conceived invasion and it makes me sick. I, personally, went to school with 2 kids at Crockett that have come home in body bags. Both of them were the only sons in their families. It really makes me sick to think about it. Now, what is going to happen to their parents as they get older? Who is going to be there for them as they get older and need assistance? Who will be there to comfort them on their death beds? I think about my buddy who has spent the last year at Walter Reed Army Hospital. He graduated from Tascosa in 93 and has 2 young sons. Unfortunately, his national guard unit got called up for a second tour and he went obediently. Unfortunately, his convoy got hit by an IED and he lost both his arm and his leg on his right side of his body. What happens to this guy now? Before this happened, the guy had been a plumber. How is he going to be able to support his family now? There is only a hook where there had once been a hand. Sure, the government says it can give him lifetime disability, but we all know that never makes up for what he would have made normally. Who is going to teach his sons to throw a football now? All they are ever going to know of their dad is the disfigured person that now exists, not the man he once was. His wife is still with him for the time being, but who knows how long that will last. Unfortunately, similar scenarios are being played out all across the country. I guess I have that blood on my hands just like anybody else that voted for Bush. Honestly, I feel a deep sense of shame.
After 911, we had the sympathy of the entire world and people were ready to do something about terrorism. Unfortunately, we took that momentum and completely lost it thru the ill-conceived invasion of Iraq. I have done a lot of travelling in my line of work and I can assure all of you that the United States has lost a lot of respect worldwide as a result of this. I'm not talking countries like France and Russia that have a long history of antagonism towards the United States, either. I have noticed the loss of respect in countries like Ireland and Brazil, who have traditionally been friendly towards the United States. Regardless of what others may say, the United States was mostly respected throughout the world before the Iraq invasion. Sure, they may have ridiculed us for our apparent lack of refinement and what many considered a relativly naive understanding of the world, but they needed that optimism that came from inhabitants of the "land of the free". Regardless of who gets elected, the next president is going to have a lot fence mending to do diplomatically.
When it all shakes out, I think people are going to realize that George W. Bush was the worst thing that has happened to the Republican party since the Watergate break-in. I think the GOP is going to be lucky if they happen to regain a majority in either house within the next 20 years. That is a shame, too, because they had some great ideals that would have transformed this country for the better. Moving to a voucher system would have acted to improve the overall quality of our education, while reducing the tax burden for property owners. Privatizing social security also would have strengthened this country financially and added an financial boost to tis country's economy. Sadly, both are now lost forever and stand little chance of getting approved. In addition, the US is most likely going to have socialized medicine in the very near future. What this is going to do is drastically increase our tax burden, which will make us much less competitive on a global market. Let's see, we have illiterate kids in an increasingly competitive global arena and we have an aging population with no real possibility of reform to social security and a push for socialized medicine. I hope people come to their senses, but I am going to continue to protect my assets by placing an ever-increasing percentage of them in overseas accounts and will have a backup plan available of a quick retreat to a tropical paradise in some country with a much lower cost of living if the tax structure becomes too prohibitive in this country.
Folks, the best path to preventing terrorism is prosperity. It's not democracy or freedom. I'm not talking about a great fortune for a select few, either. There has to be economic opportunities for the middle and lower classes of these third world countries. Terrorism thrives in the poorer regions of the globe. By increasing a country's econimc livelihood, it raises the education and lowers the ignorance of its populace. By doing this, it will work to minimize the effects of religions like Wahabism. Religions like to keep their subjects poor and uneducated because it makes them easier to manipulate. Islam is a dangerous religion not because it is inherently evil, but because so many of its followers are poor and uneducated. It is easy to get some kid with no education that grew up in a mud hut to blow himself up for Allah if he thinks he is going to have a gaggle of virgins waiting on him hand and foot once he does the deed. What does this person have to live for on this planet? Now, if the person is educated, lives a decent life, and has opportunities, it is a much tougher sell. That's just something to consider.
BTW: I didn't see anybody mention that the people who stoned the girl to death were Kurds, our supposed allies in Iraq.
|
|
|
|
Post by gitpikker58 on May 9, 2007 15:48:32 GMT -5
Would there EVER be a war where NO ONE was hurt or killed? Perhaps the US and the Iraqi's could start a forum and blast each other with keyboards.
Ok, let's pull out and see what happens. Would the liberals want to pick up a gun to defend their home? Or would they blame Bush AGAIN because we were being attacked HERE? Many of the soldiers over in Iraq tell reporters that they'd rather be THERE fighting the terrorists instead of fighting the terrorists HERE!
Whoever is in office will be blamed (as long as He is a Republican) for anything happening that might go against any grain whatsoever.
Let's support our troops, don't tie one hand behind their backs and expect everyone to be hunky dorry!
|
|
|
|
Post by princessbaybay on May 9, 2007 16:05:57 GMT -5
No Git....it's not just the republicans ...... the democrats are acting like idiots too.... too worried about their parties to get any REAL problem solving done. ;D
It is like a high school popularity contest and has no real substance...
And while they are playing "vote for me" and making and breaking promises while dumbing down our country with all their school yard crap... we just sink deeper and deeper into a vat of sh!t........
This country needs to come together if we are going to survive.
|
|
|
|
Post by marked on May 9, 2007 16:33:44 GMT -5
Would there EVER be a war where NO ONE was hurt or killed? Perhaps the US and the Iraqi's could start a forum and blast each other with keyboards. Ok, let's pull out and see what happens. Would the liberals want to pick up a gun to defend their home? Or would they blame Bush AGAIN because we were being attacked HERE? Many of the soldiers over in Iraq tell reporters that they'd rather be THERE fighting the terrorists instead of fighting the terrorists HERE! Whoever is in office will be blamed (as long as He is a Republican) for anything happening that might go against any grain whatsoever. Let's support our troops, don't tie one hand behind their backs and expect everyone to be hunky dorry! If you had to come up with a plan to combat terrorism, and you could have 3,300 U.S. casualties and spend $1,000,000,000.00, would you choose taking out Saddam and policing a Sunni-Shiite civil war? |
|
|
|
Post by marked on May 9, 2007 16:35:17 GMT -5
Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Worsens Terrorism Threat
Article Tools Sponsored By
By MARK MAZZETTI
Published: September 24, 2006
WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by American intelligence agencies has found that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.
|
|
|
|
Post by unk on May 9, 2007 16:41:19 GMT -5
Old news marked.
|
|
|
|
Post by marked on May 9, 2007 16:42:35 GMT -5
Sorry, some moron was saying if we didn't fight them over there, we'd fight them over here. |
|
